This is a response to Answer Bearer’s post entitled “Moral Framework“, which is a response to Lisa’s post entitled “Unmuddling Morality“.
- If there is a moral law, then there is a Moral Law Giver.
- There is a moral law
- Therefore there is a Moral Law Giver
I agree with the logical structure and with premise #2. I disagree with premise #1 and, therefore, the conclusion. But first, let’s address the concept of subjective vs. objective morality.
There is a difference between agreement on specifics of right and wrong and a basic understanding that there is right and wrong. The specifics can be subjective at times; however, the framework is objective.
Agreed.
If morality was subjective to a culture or a person, one could say that the English slave trade or the American slavery was not wrong to those who didn’t believe it to be wrong. However, I think the reality is that it was always wrong even when people justified it to be right. Also, just because a community justifies something to be right, doesn’t mean deep in their souls they know it to be right.
Agreed.
If morality is subjective then we have no right to judge another culture or community for doing atrocities to people such as the holocaust. However, if it is objective and all people really do know right from wrong somehow then the Nuremburg Trials were warranted.
Agreed.
In my opinion, you have been arguing against a straw man. You seem to be assuming that, because we reject belief in a deity, we also reject the concept of universal, objective morality, or that if we do accept the idea of objective morality, we have no basis on which to do so. These are common (and tiresome) theist canards.
While it is certainly possible to be an atheist and reject the concept of objective morality (since atheism is simply a position on a single issue and is not, in and of itself, a philosophy or a worldview), most atheists, in my experience, subscribe to the framework of secular humanism to some degree or another and therefore tend to view morality as something that is objective and the product of logical reasoning. Lisa and I wholeheartedly embrace this position.
Given that we’re all in agreement that morality is not subjective or culturally-relative, let’s proceed.
The second part of the syllogism proclaims God must exist because there is a moral framework. How else could a standard of morality exist in humanity if it were not for a conscious designer placing it there? The objective nature of a moral standard that man kind experiences guilt when he breaks it and demands justice when it is broken against him is not explained by evolution.
Allow me to quote from the always-excellent Adam Marczyk: “[Atheism] can accommodate both the existence of a moral law and the manifest fact that not every culture or individual is aware of it. The explanation is straightforward: morality is not something implanted in every person’s heart by a creator, but something derived from careful deliberation and a rational understanding of our place in the world and our relationships to each other.”
In other words, morality, which is objective, is discovered through careful reasoning, not by reading a primitive book or appealing to a magical sky fairy. Our evolved brains are more than capable of taking stock of situations, weighing the pros and cons of various courses of action, and anticipating (and empathizing with) the feelings of others.
Further commentary on this “Mere Christianity” argument can be found here. Further commentary on non-theistic morality is available here. Lisa linked to these essays in her post; I would strongly urge you to read them in their entireties before replying.
Again that is why I maintain that non-Christians must borrow from the Christian worldview regarding these things to even posit questions about good and evil and how to differentiate between the two. It’s the only worldview that gives a good explanation about how this all works and is the most viable in corresponding to reality.
As I’ve shown, this is false. The godless explanations I’ve presented are far more parsimonious and logically satisfying than the nebulous supernatural dreck proposed by theists of all stripes.
Regarding the Bible condoning slavery, it does not. Jesus didn’t come to force political change; that was not His mission. He knew that the heart change that happens from knowing Him would change the world and force would never produce love which was what was needed to treat people the way He designed them to be treated
Did you miss Lisa’s list of Biblical passages that condone slavery? Would you care to address them directly?